A. SROITER: Ladies and gentlemen, we will remain on these important developments and the facts concerning our national issues, to examine the situation with the help of the person responsible for our national defence. The Minister of National Defence Mr Evangelos Apostolakis is here at the studio with me. Minister, good evening.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Good evening Mr Sroiter.

A. SROITER: Thank you very much for coming. You heard the recent statements by Erdogan. In a few days the missiles will have been installed, while at the same time a second rig is already moving towards Cyprus. This is the situation thus far.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Certainly. Mr Erdogan’s provocations or statements have no end. From the look of things, the measures adopted thus far or at least the actions taken, do not inhibit his movements. As you know, Mr Tsipras is in Brussels today, at the Summit. As we speak, they are drafting a statement which will be pretty harsh against Turkey.

A. SROITER: In the draft which I have heard about, there is no mention of particular measures, although there are often huge differences between a draft and a finalised document. However Minister, the world “measures” is not even included in the text.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: I have not been informed of the text’s details. From what I understand and from what the Prime Minister has told me, they will mention some measures, which will be later applied, if there is no change in Turkey’s movements.

A. SROITER: No end is in sight regarding Turkey’s movements. A second rig is on the way towards the sea area of Cyprus. If there is one positive element in the situation is that the Turkish, at least currently and you are better informed on this issue than me, do not seem to be willing to take the next step, to approach that is, the Greek Exclusive Economic Zone, making things much harder.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Their stated intentions and the things they have promoted as future actions, included such plans and they probably still do. However, the estimate is that there are so many things which should be combined and so many problems which must be resolved, that they do not seem willing to proceed. Still, since we always talk based on possibilities, we do not know how the situation will develop, because in the meantime there are numerous other issues which will arise, like the decisions which will be taken in the European Union Summit, what will happen with the Americans with whom they currently have a great contention because of the S-400 and the F-35, and whether the Americans will take any measures or not. We do not know how things will turn out. We will see.

A. SROITER: These are things which you obviously cannot predict, so you monitor them. The question is Minister, what are we going to do? You, the Prime Minister and the whole of the Greek political leadership have stated that we are not going to remain idle if the Turkish try to enter the sea area of Kastelorizo. What does that practically mean? Are we going to send the fleet to the area? Are we going to react differently? What are our operational plans?

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Look, at this moment we cannot say what the required actions will be. However, we can state that we cannot and we will not allow this to happen. I think that this is comprehensible to all Greeks.

A. SROITER: So, you say that it will not happen.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: No, it won’t.

A. SROITER: I will hold you to that. I am reading something else online. It is a view on which I would like your opinion. That the Turkish have already achieved something essential from the whole affair called “drillings”. And that is the fact that they have already and essentially violated the joint defence doctrine of Greece and Cyprus, which stipulates that if there is a threat against Cyprus – an invasion according to President Anastasiadis – this means a simultaneous threat against Greece and so we have to react. We have yet to react as a country, despite the fact that they are already in the Cyprus Exclusive Economic Zone and they are drilling.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Mr Sroiter, let us look at things as they really are, because the joint defence doctrine does not apply anymore. There is a bilateral, structured defence cooperation, which stipulates the same things, but let us not forget that Cyprus is another state.

A. SROITER: It is.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: To resort to military action, certain requirements will have to be met. First of all, the state must submit a request, we must consider the situation and see whether we can proceed or not. However, their movements have not yet reached the point which calls for military measures. Before resorting to military measures, we must first go through all the other options which are available to us through the diplomatic channels. We are currently at this phase. You should bear in mind that these things had been discussed long ago with Cyprus and we have examined the possible scenarios and reactions. We are not startled, since we anticipated these developments. We anticipated these developments and we have made the necessary preparations.

A. SROITER: In the plans, the scenarios and in everything you talked about this period, I imagine that you estimated the reactions and the support which we might receive by the Americans and the Europeans. Thus far, we have received verbal support, in some cases more intense, in others less. Minister, the question is, have you personally or the Prime Minister been assured by the Americans or the Europeans that in case of a hot incident we will also have a military backing, that we will have an actual support or will we be left to our fate, with some verbal demonstration of sympathy and nothing more.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: There is no such promise, nor such assumption at the moment, but as I have said before, if the need arises for us to act, it is better to count on our own forces.

A. SROITER: So you say that we will be on our own?

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Exactly. The picture which we have communicated to the Americans and all our friends is that the situation is currently unchanged, ways must be found for Turkey to cease these provocative actions, because if things go too far, like in the case of Kastelorizo which you mentioned earlier, then we will have no choice. Then the situation will have become very hard. So, if they wish to help us avoid these scenarios, they must act now. We are looking forward to this kind of help by our allies and of course to the deterrent force which arises from the fact that we have established powerful alliances.

A. SROITER: This statement is of great importance, so that everyone can consider things from the right perspective, since from one point on, in case of a conflict or an incident we are on our own and we begin based on this rationale. Neither will the Americans, the Europeans or anyone else come to our aid. Minister, I imagine that the same stands for the forces with which we have been discussing all this time, establishing strategic alliances, like Israel or Egypt for example, with which it is nice to take pictures, it is nice to express good intentions, but neither of these forces has recently demonstrated an actual support, during Turkey’s conduct in Cyprus.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Look, the cooperations and the schemes which we cultivate, with a great degree of success, have to do with the support we receive at the international fora and the power which arises from groups of states with the same interests, facing the same threats.

A. SROITER: Diplomatic support.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: It is an essential aspect, because as you see, the greatest part of the pressure is exercised through diplomatic means.

A. SROITER: Correct.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: So, I believe that assistance has already been given, their positions are definite, they are currently supporting Cyprus’ rights and they are also trying – through statements and pressure, in various ways – to deter Turkey from going on with these actions.

A. SROITER: So be it! I will not ask if the Hellenic Army is ready to face the challenge. I am sure that your answer will be positive.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: I do not need to say it. It is ready.

A. SROITER: I am sure of the answer since I have heard you saying it before. Minister, the question is, if after ten years of financial crisis the known balance in the Aegean and at the two state’s defence forces in general, has been undone. The truth is that during these ten years we have not conducted a major defence order, while the Turkish have invested a lot of money in their army and I would like you to give me your opinion on the forces ratio between the two states at the moment.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: The forces ratio has been upset. The correlations have changed. These years of crisis have certainly created a problem, since we halted all of our new defence programmes. However, things were straightened out, we picked our pieces up and we have now managed, through proper financial administration and the available budgets, to maintain the Armed Forces at a very good level, with very good operational capabilities. No one would believe that we would manage to maintain such a high level. Therefore, taking the difficult circumstances into consideration, the Armed Forces are in exceptional condition, because since we could not move forward with new programmes, our effort was concentrated on maintaining the systems and the assets functional and operational. That was achieved thanks to the exceptional personnel, because they are highly professional and because they considered it a personal affair.

A. SROITER: So, the balance of power has been undone. I would like to end our conversation by examining the next day, which will find the Turkish acquiring either the S-400 or the F-35, from the look of things. Both are exceptional weapons. How will that shape the situation for Greece?

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Look, it is not pleasant when Turkey acquires such capabilities. The S-400 constitute a major issue at the moment, they already claim that it is a defence system and it is in deed, but their range, if they are installed in the Aegean or the Mediterranean, affects us. Now, regarding the F-35 they are a 5th generation aircraft, an exquisite platform. The F-35 cannot be countered with another F-35 but with modern timely warning and location systems, with a better antimissile system. Of course, at some point we will also have to acquire new generation aircrafts.

A. SROITER: I see.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: With regard to the USA, it currently claims that it will not allow anyone to posses both the best aircraft in the world along with some of the major countermeasures which are at this aircraft’s disposal, for many and various reasons. If they insist on the matter then I believe that the Turkish will not acquire the F-35. However, various solutions have been proposed, so we don’t know how things will turn out in the end.

A. SROITER: It remains to be seen. From what you just said, I understand that we will also have to look at the future of our own systems from now on. On my side, I am going to wish for an uneventful summer, as I imagine you and all of the Greek people wish too, for now and the following months too.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: Allow me to say that no one should be worried at the moment. We haven’t reached that point yet. The situation is under control, the whole of Europe and the USA are trying to stop this Turkish activity. At the same time, we hold a very good position and today, for the first time, the top European Union Committee is examining possible measures against Turkey. You should bear in mind that after the Imia incident, nobody mentioned any measures. They just said that the two sides should settle matters on their own.

A. SROITER: Yes, at the time they had said that we should settle things on our own. So let us hope that when we read the finalised text, that we will indeed have a substantial intervention. I would like to thank you very much for your presence at our station.

E. APOSTOLAKIS: I would also like to thank you for the opportunity which you gave me.

A. SROITER: You are welcome.