JOURNALIST: You had recently expressed through the newspaper “Imerisia tou Savatou” a proposal for an agenda of national understanding. Today, the country is at the most critical time of its history after the regime change, and you have already spoken for broader consent, even after the elections. According to your estimations, does the mandate given to the government of Papademos allow it to make the necessary manoeuvres or does it need political and temporal extension?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: The framework and the time limit are very definite. What the government of Papademos needs above all is for the PSI to conclude and then proceed to a new loan agreement, in order for Greece to avoid default and Euro exit; since this would be disastrous. However, this agreement should be implemented after hard negotiations with the troika, so as not to be led to anti-developmental measures, which will cause more problems to the market and to society, jeopardizing our social cohesion and leading the middle class to its collapse. On the other hand, under no circumstances must we put in danger our national integrity as far as our country’s security issues are concerned.
JOURNALIST: Do you believe that “national understanding” actually exists?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: Not to the extent these circumstances would demand.
JOURNALIST: Will Mr. Papademos make it?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: This is something that depends on us all. This government must succeed in the mission it has been assigned and it has assumed, and what’s more, in order to leave a legacy of national understanding; something we will need in the future.
JOURNALIST: Can it shift beyond the framework that has been defined?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: The framework and the goals set by the political leaders, under the President of the Hellenic Republic, are sufficient. However, it would sure help if the governmental scheme could be more flexible and efficient.
JOURNALIST: Does the “German recipe” of the new Treaty concerning our financial matters give the possibility to our country to exit the crisis? Given the decision, are there the tools for our country to respond, within such a tight framework?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: Unfortunately, it does not allow many possibilities. It enforces rough one-ways. As things have evolved, I am afraid that society will not be able to respond to the suffocating clauses enforced. For all these adjustments and changes to occur, time is needed, along with will, discretion and decisiveness; on the other hand, troika should show more understanding to the Hellenic reality.
If social consent is not ensured, political consent will have relative value.
JOURNALIST: Mister Minister, since troika insists on cutting the wages in the private sector and on eliminating the 13th and 14th salary, what is – according to your opinion – the ultimate retreat the government can make in order for the new loan agreement to be approved?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: I believe that the 13th and 14th salaries will not be eliminated in the private sector. Troika seems to have realized this. The measures that have been announced, from the moment they will be implemented with consistency, can contribute essentially to the expenditure cuts that have been demanded, so as to serve the fundamental goal.
Social endurance has reached its limits. And during these hours, our first priority should be to maintain social consistency, along with a development policy.
JOURNALIST: In your party, several MPs avoid voting for measures decided in the Council of Ministers, as recently with the liberalization of law firms and the freight truck sector. Others raise the point of coordination within the Parliamentary Group. Would you like to make a comment?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: It is the MPs’ constitutional right to a free and independent judgment. Within the Party’s framework, they have the right to express stands and views. However, they never stop holding with the line jointly configured. Especially when we experience critical times, we all put before the collective national goal rather than our personal survival.
JOURNALIST: The ‘Nea Demokratia’ party insists that after the elections, there is a possibility to renegotiate the recipe imposed by our creditors. How realistic is such an approach, given that currently the government supported by the three parties hits a wall when negotiating with the troika?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: Already, the issue of redefining the memoranda policy has currently opened by Community institutions themselves, since they realize the dead-end of such policies. Consequently, why should the ‘Nea Demokratia’ party and Antonis Samaras’ approach of renegotiating some of the memoranda clauses, when the time comes, be unrealistic? These elections will be decisive for the political system and they shall give to the new government a fresh air for negotiations, along with prestige. Greece is on the verge of a political transformation. The same happens in other European countries as well. Everything changes; the next day of the crisis will not be the same, neither for Greece, nor for Europe.
JOURNALIST: The government has decided on defence expenses cuts. In which sectors is this cut focused and how will it affect the Armed Forces’ effectiveness?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: The Armed Forces’ effectiveness has not been affected, nor will such a prospect occur. However we contribute as well, to the extent this will not harm the country’s effective defence shielding. We have engaged to cut the budget by 400 million Euros in 2013. We are studying this issue already and, by the end of February, we shall be ready, with proposals. Of course, we will take into account the country’s defence needs expressed in the General Staffs’ proposals, and we shall not proceed to any expenditures beyond the necessary. Already, we utilize the offset benefits which linger the past ten years. Without burdening the budget, they shall cover the needs of the Ministry of Defence and of the Staffs, as well as of the Hellenic Defence Industry. We also utilize NATO funds. Last week, despite other countries’ reactions, our country secured 334 million Euros by NATO, for the construction of radars and fuel tanks.
JOURNALIST: In the Ministry of National Defence, you didn’t have any incidents, not one “tussle”, even though your alternates came from the “PASOK” and “LAOS” parties. In the end, which is the recipe for coexistence?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: Sense, spirit of national mutual responsibility, moderation, order in the institutions and honest looks and discussions.
JOURNALIST: Will you proceed with the prolongation of military service, as your predecessor planned?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: I have publicly referred to this issue. There are proposals made by the Hellenic National Defence General Staff to increase military service, which are considered by the pertinent committees.
Before anything else, we must strain all resources to utilize army conscripts in posts where they will be more functional and productive, so as to have a clearer picture.
However, in principle I believe that the young people, which are the first to be affected by unemployment, cannot stand the damage of a financial and social crisis, of which they are the only ones not responsible, yet they shall undergo its consequences during the first years of their career. Besides, volunteers exist.
JOURNALIST: Polls give a prominent lead to the ‘Nea Demokratia’ party. However, based on current data, no increased chance for it to win self-sufficiency emerges. According to you, should the ‘Nea Demokratia’ party aim at by-election?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: The ‘Nea Demokratia’ party goes to the election aiming at self-sufficiency. The dynamics of the election always benefit the first party. Moreover, Antonis Samaras is the only leader who predicted accurately the financial developments, came out against the memorandum, voted it down against everybody and presented proposals for coming out the crisis; and all that without ideological prejudice – shown by other leaders of leftist parties – but with realism and European perspective.
JOURNALIST: What if self-efficiency is not accomplished?
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: The ‘Nea Demokratia’ party aims at it, asks for it and it shall succeed. However, even in this case, always inspired by principles of national responsibility, it shall seek after cooperation with other parties. Because, during this circumstance, this is what we premise; national unity, which this party traditionally and historically served and still serves.
JOURNALIST: Finally, mister Minister, the initiative to claim our war reparations came up again, requesting your involvement, being Minister of National Defence.
D. AVRAMOPOULOS: Even if a little bit late, the issue has justly come up again. Of course, the Italians came before. And yesterday was issued the decision of the International Court of Justice on Germany’s appeal against Italy, concerning the same issue between the two countries. The decision was in Germany’s favour.
However, something must be done, absolutely. In any case, statutory limitation on war crimes is not applicable. Consequently, in spite of yesterday’s decision of the ICJ, we will try to remit the issue of Greek reparations, in due time.
On the other side, the merely political one, this anticipation will be useful, since PSI and memorandum matters are not clarified yet, in the meantime elections will be held, and so we will have a new government, with a fresh mandate. I personally believe that war crimes overtop state immunity. And this is a stand I support since I served the Hellenic diplomacy. Sometime the Hellenic state must claim its rights both via international justice and at political level, with representations. However, timing is the most important detail for the successful outcome of such complicated issues, concerning history and political coincidence.
