N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Good morning. Good morning Greece from London. I will be in Athens in the evening. Tomorrow, on the same day of Aghios Nikolaos, the contract regarding the F-16, Mirage aircraft and other issues will be presented to the Parliament.

G. PAPADAKIS: Yes. It has already been presented to the Parliament. It is an extremely important issue.

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: I must come forward and support it, because ultimately what counts – also regarding the issue to be discussed shortly – above all, is the reinforcement of the Armed Forces’ battle worthiness. The time is near, one step at a time.

G. PAPADAKIS: No one can disagree with that, you are absolutely right. Minister, I do not expect from you to reveal the subject of the meeting which you attended, supporting the Prime Minister, you yourself and Mr. Dendias as well. It would be unacceptable on my part to ask ‘what was the subject of the discussion Minister?’. Your impression though was that the person opposite to you was a good listener or did he want you to listen to what he was saying?

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Nowadays, Turkey is considered to have ‘gained ground’, at least in the eyes of its people and leaders. This was obvious in the way the Turkish delegation behaved in NATO. From then on, though, we did not participate in this discussion to listen or to admire, but to put some issues on the table, as the Prime Minister did ‘including the last detail’. Anything he wanted to say, any objection he wanted to present, any behaviour he wanted to castigate or criticise – obviously referring to the Turkish behaviour – he did all that, without fear or favour.

We also listened of course. It was common sense. We went there in good faith to hear the many things President Erdogan had to say, who in turn put a number of issues on the table as well. We agreed, in a positive climate, that we disagree, because this is the essence in a few words: We agreed in a positive climate that we disagree!

G. PAPADAKIS: What you are saying says it all: ‘We agreed in a positive climate that we disagree’. Because no one expected that the next step would be to ‘come to blows’. Minister, the Turkish media claim that Mr. Erdogan made an analytical briefing regarding the content of the agreement with Libya.

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: No, this is not true. We asked to be briefed on the content of the agreement with Libya, which I remind you is not a proclamation of an Exclusive Economic Zone, but an agreement in which the two governments show intension to proclaim it in the future as an Exclusive Economic Zone. This agreement should be ratified by the Turkish National Assembly and by the Parliament of Libya. Even if the first step is taken easily – and I have no doubt it will – the second step is really very difficult, if not impossible to be taken, given that the Libyan government does not have the political legalization in the interior of its country to start such procedures. Therefore, the issue cannot be solved at once, but the move forward is regarded as very important.

In essence, although the Greek side and the Prime Minister asked to be briefed on the content of the agreement so that Athens can comment on it, this was not possible, that is to be briefed by the Turkish side, but we agreed that the problem regarding this matter is not severe. Once the agreement is ratified by the Parliament, it will be published and in the future we will be able to get a copy to study it.

Joking Mr.Erdogan said ‘you could have taken the copy from the Libyan ambassador, but you removed him from his office’, so this meeting had its ‘light’ moments as well. In any case though, this could not have happened yesterday. Therefore, the Turkish media publish false information.

G. PAPADAKIS: Minister, regarding all three issues that were put on the table, which were the agreement with Libya, the continuous Turkish provocations, the huge migratory issue, the violations in the Exclusive Economic Zone of Cyprus, was there room for discussion or did Mr. Erdogan keep on saying ‘no’ to everything?

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: For some time now, Turkey has been escalating some specific behaviour regarding claims in the East Mediterranean. We put the Migratory issue on the table, that is the Greek Prime Minister raised the issue. He came prepared for that. Being there, he invited Turkey to realise that it will benefit from the cooperation with Greece regarding convincing Europe to do what it must do, that is to bare the burden corresponding to it with regard to the Migratory issue management.

At this point they started the discussion. The Greek Prime Minister mentioned to Mr.Erdogan that lately the Turkish port authorities do not cooperate, they show some indifference regarding the flows’ increase or they ‘turn a deaf ear’ in order to rather encourage them and that if they do not cooperate, the problem will not be solved. Greece could help create structures in Turkey or help Turkey be financed by the European Union. But if Turkey does not cooperate, if it does not take action to control the flows from its own territory, then this could not be done.

I believe there will be some progress, since Turkey’s and Erdogan’s problem is that he cannot communicate with Europe. Obviously Turkey ‘plays a role’ in the Migratory issue, resulting to putting the pressure on Greece, but I think that the communication with Europe is a ‘key factor’ here, regarding the flows and the pressure that our country faces. By the way, I am obliged to say that as of tomorrow, as you will find out, our country’s stance regarding the borders control becomes stricter, starting from the ground borders with a plan which is being drafted for some time now – which will be announced soon enough –since these borders are easier and more manageable.

G. PAPADAKIS: Minister, was it Erdogan’s impression as well or Erdogan tried to put such issue on us too for consideration, regarding the limitations of each side’s actions? All right, we find out that we disagree, in a positive climate, as you told us, but should the situation remain as it is until now and we’ll see what is to follow or is the situation out of control regarding developments in the days to come?

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: I am going to say this and it is my personal opinion: I did not leave from the meeting with a feeling that I dealt with people who came, said what they had to say and from then on, they left, without leaving a small window for communication. There is window for communication, given there is a positive stance. The Greek side showed its positive stance during all this time. I cannot say the same for Turkey.

We haven’t seen any signs of positive stance over the last two months, after the Mitsotakis-Erdogan meeting in New York. What did we see? We saw this behaviour concerning the agreement of setting the boundaries of the sea zones with Libya, which was a token of negative stance. We saw an escalated provocativeness, with all this rhetoric and all these actions in the East Mediterranean. We did not see much from the Turks. I believe – and this is what I said in the meeting with Mr. Akar in Brussels – that if we are to communicate, the tension must be reduced. This is what President Erdogan stated yesterday. These were his last words.

G. PAPADAKIS: Did Erdogan say that the tension must be reduced?

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Erdogan said that it would be good to reduce the tension, as if we, Greeks, are the ones who escalate tension unilaterally and taking the initiative without response due to the other side. In any case though, this has its meaning. If we agreed on something yesterday is that the Confidence Building Measures, despite the fact that in a period of tension and incendiary statements this is not a true token of progress, should continue as an open communication channel between the two countries.

G. PAPADAKIS: There was confusion at this point.

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: We will see. It was a misunderstanding.

G. PAPADAKIS: While you were with the Prime Minister, we expressed our opinion and said that it is not possible to be by the side of the Prime Minister and the Minister himself to announce that…

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: True, it is like that. All right, there are some leaks from the Ministry of Defence, but the important thing about the Confidence Building Measures is that we were not in a harry, even before yesterday’s meeting with the Turkish side, to give answers regarding the start dates of the Confidence Building Measures. This does not mean that we decided not to take Confidence Building Measures. We will examine the dates, we will measure the situation and we will decide. As a communication channel though, I believe it should be open, even in a period of tension and I have said this in the past. From then on, if there is positive stance, as the Prime Minister stated in his statement, there will be room for progress. If there is no positive stance, no such room will exist. We will be prepared for all emergencies, at every level.

G. PAPADAKIS: You say, for all emergencies, at every level. My last question, Minister, is something that concerns you directly. If tomorrow – the day after tomorrow, a drilling machine appears to drill in the area that has been specified by Turkey and Libya, based on an agreement without legal status, how will our country respond?

N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: First, we may have sent our own drilling machine there. Who knows, Mr.Papadakis? Let us not speak hypothetically. I do not believe this is possible, at least at this stage, with such a legally untrustworthy agreement, with regard to which, even the European Union as an institution has reacted. It is not only Greece, the European Union has also reacted.

In any case though, this behaviour clearly concerns us, but it should not scare us. And this is because our Armed Forces are ready to face every challenge – and this is also my mission in the Ministry – we should feel really safe.

We are on speaking terms with Turkey. We sit at the same table with the President of Turkey and we talk on equal terms. He is a serious person, who has serious things to say and listens carefully to what others say. Kyriakos Mitsotakis put all issues on the table yesterday. All that concern both sides and all that concern mostly us, as he also listened to the issues that interest Turkey more. From then on, everyone will do his job.

Our job – especially mine in the Ministry of National Defence – is to keep the Armed Forces in the best possible condition. Besides, Turkey’s tool in such behaviors is its own Armed Forces. Isn’t that right? Its ships and aircraft that come and go in the East Mediterranean, manifesting in a way that it is the powerful ‘player’ in the area.