JOURNALIST: What emerged from this meeting? Have we agreed that we disagree? What are your conclusions?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: As I said before, if I could describe this meeting in a few words and what happened, I would say that we have agreed in a very good atmosphere that we disagree. However, we have to keep on discussing, even at a confidence-building measures level. Apart from that, depending on the extent and the tension of disagreement, we need to look for ways to launch them as to whether there is any chance of understanding each other. I am not expecting from Turkey to change its attitude towards Eastern Mediterranean Sea. I expect that there is some room for mutual understanding in the management of the refugee issue; however, not as we experience it recently, with the increase of refugee flows and Turkey’s relevant ignorance, particularly through the port authorities that are not cooperating very well recently with our port authorities.
I believe that this famous agreement on the demarcation of marine areas with Libya will not have a good future ahead, since it constitutes a document of declaration of intents that needs to be ratified by both Parliaments and in case it is finally ratified – which is not the problem – in Turkey by the Turkish parliament, there will certainly be a problem with its ratification by the Libyan parliament, given that the Sarraj government, with which the understanding has been reached, lacks wide political legitimacy in Libya. Therefore, there will be a problem there and there is also the European Union’s institutional response. But this declaration of intents surely causes concern as a Turkish move on the geopolitical chessboard; let’s face it. In any case, all issues have been raised; the Greek Prime Minister did so.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Panagiotopoulos, all Turkish challenges have been mentioned?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Yes, we discussed everything. The Greek Prime Minister was prepared to put all issues currently concerning the Greek side on the table. Likewise, the Turkish President also put the issues he thought being appropriate on the table. We exchanged views. I would say that the nature of the discussions involved seriousness, but also underlying familiarity between two sides that have sit down at the same table many times; sometimes with better and sometimes with worse results, but in any case two sides that understand each other. At times, the mood was lightened; others, seriousness prevailed.
JOURNALIST: We would say that questions were hanging heavy in the air.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: However, things have never been unpleasant. In other words, I left with the feeling that I have to deal with people who play of course their own game; they have their interests to promote, but they speak and mainly deal with the Greek side with seriousness.
JOURNALIST: Minister, after this meeting, does anything change in the country’s defensive armour, defence formation, defence policy? For instance, do you see any strengthening of our forces in Crete? Or as regards the refugee issue, do you see any strengthening of our forces there in the context of prevention of flows?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Let’s just address one thing at a time. First of all, tomorrow if I am not mistaken, after a rather long planning – because these matters cannot be solved in a couple of days, there needs to be integrated planning at many levels – the plan for the tightening of the border surveillance in Evros will be announced. Evros should become manageable; Evros’ borders surveillance should become finally manageable and controllable. It is not the same as with islands; In Evros, we have to do with land borders and I believe that there are things that may be done to increase, tighten the surveillance measures and prevent the refugee flows from there.
Apart from that, as regards the overall magnitude of the Armed Forces, efforts are of course ongoing for their strengthening. Tomorrow in Parliament, literally without taking a breath, we bring the agreements for the upgrading of F-16 and the follow-on support of Mirage, as well as some other provisions that solve long-standing pending issues of the Ministry of National Defence.
Thus, the way is opened for the upgrading of the backbone of our Air Force fleet – meaning F-16 aircrafts – but also for the increase of the operational functionality of our other planes, the other main military aircraft – the Mirage – which is particularly useful in the Aegean theatre of operations. Therefore, we are taking one step at a time; there are many other things that we have to deal with.
JOURNALIST: And what about Crete? Because we saw Mr. Donmez, the Turkish Minister of Energy, declaring before the meeting that explorations and drillings will take place in the marine areas demarcated by virtue of this memorandum between Libya and Turkey.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Look, I am not aware of the schedule of Turkish drilling. In the past, there we were also hearing about drillings in Kastelorizo – at the end of summer – and it turned out that they never took place. Turkey will consider things very carefully and I believe that they know well that this agreement – we haven’t seen the text of the agreement yet, but we will see it soon, because it is a public document to be ratified by the Parliaments of both countries – suffers from a series of irregularities; it lacks legal foundation.
I am confident that Turkey will count its steps there. In any case though, the new disposition of the Armed Forces is something that concerns us greatly, outside the framework of recent developments and Turkey’s attitude. The new National Defence Policy is currently being drafted and will be made available to the Prime Minister by the end of the year. The new structure of the Armed Forces follows, which is the new plan of the Ministry of National Defence for the disposition of the Armed Forces in the country, given the challenges, the threats and the geopolitical field.
That would take place in any event. I do not want to give the impression that after yesterday’s meeting, we are stepping on the gas to arm ourselves, because no-one knows what will happen. No. We have already set out a path indicating that in any case, we should have combat effective Armed Forces with strong deterrent effect.
JOURNALIST: Haven’t we got a crisis brewing with Turkey at this time?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Of course there is a tension. We cannot pretend that everything is alright with these provocative attitudes, but apart from that, we are doing our job, which is to ensure the increase of the level of preparedness and operational capability, and therefore deterrent effect, of the country’s Armed Forces. This effort is ongoing and continues as if nothing has ever happened.
JOURNALIST: And so, Minister, are we 100% ready?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: We are never 100% ready; we can always increase the level of our preparedness. Problems are everywhere; issues are everywhere; with the adequacy of armaments, with the state of our weapon systems. None will ever be 100% functional; however, the ongoing effort is to do what you have to do in terms of maintenance -as well as of old armaments- and in terms of acquiring new ones and also in the framework of the economic difficulties that our country is facing for several years, so that this level would be improved.
Tomorrow, a small “big” step will be made at the Parliament with the introduction for voting – debate first – to the Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence of two major agreements involving the F-16 and Mirage aircrafts. There is more to come. I would like to remind you that Mirage aircrafts stopped being supplied with spare parts for about more than ten years and as a result, many of them have been discredited. However, by virtue of the agreement that will be introduced tomorrow, the agreement with three major French suppliers is established and as soon as it is ratified and passed by the Parliament under the law we are introducing, which means within the following week, in the Plenary Session, orders will be initiated after more than ten years for spare parts to be borne by the Mirage aircrafts – those that are not flying and there are many of them, not all of them, but many of them – so that over time they would become fully operational. And you will ask me: what was happening for ten years now? I do not know what was happening for ten years now. I will not get involved in such a debate. What I do know however is that during the last three to four months that we took the Government, we have completed whatever should be completed and now, we are in a position to introduce the agreement to the Parliament, so that the significant increase to the level of operational readiness of Mirage would be initiated.
JOURNALIST: Are there any discussions about F-35 as well?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: No. At this time, there are no discussions about F-35. However, the programme for the upgrading of F-16 to the Viper category – let me remind you that the Viper is currently more advanced aircraft than the F-16 in the world, with great capabilities in its electronic systems – when implemented in full at the facilities of the Hellenic Aerospace Industry and with the cooperation of Lockheed Martin, which manufactures F-35, will provide Greece with another aircraft on the verge of the 4th and 5th generation. This programme would constitute in the future the “bridge” for the transition to the famous 5th generation aircraft, to wit F-35. Do not forget that all these armament programmes require lots of money.
JOURNALIST: Without doubt. The country has just exited from a crisis.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Precisely. The programmes I am referring to right now regarding Mirage and F-16 are planned from a financial point of view; however, the acquisition of a brand new system, like for instance we have heard about the French frigates or F-35, would require a very generous funding. These weapons are very expensive and certainly, a respective financial planning is required.
JOURNALIST: Therefore things need to be done until the frigates are incorporated into the Armed Forces.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: As I have said many times, the French side and the Greek side are currently cooperating on the issue of the frigates, in order to see what exactly the Greek side needs with regard to this ship in which the Greek side is interested – I admit that there is an interest indeed – as regards the electronic and weapon systems. The French side should agree and after that, we should ensure that we have an understanding; that they are able of proceeding with the manufacturing based on the Hellenic Navy’s requirements and of course to see what is included in the financial aspect. Because we will be aware of the financial aspect as soon as we are aware of the exact capabilities of this warship.
Therefore, there is a long way to the frigates. Of course, in my opinion, the funding and the financial aspect will be major issues of concern at the final stage, on which our decision will depend. In any case though, it costs to have upgraded, equipped, ready Armed Forces. Of course, one of our strategic goals is to try to be able to enter into co-manufacturing of weapon systems through our Defence Industry for the benefit of the Greek Defence Industry, for the benefit of the Armed Forces, that will no longer need to go “shopping” abroad, if you allow me such a simplistic way of saying it.
JOURNALIST: Co-manufacturing with whom? France, Germany?
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: I don’t have anything in particular in mind at the moment. However, when there is an active Defence Industry, this may join ventures on co-manufacturing of various Weapon Systems, part of which may take place in Greece. It is sad for a country like Greece, which is not warmonger, but possesses powerful Armed Forces out of necessity due to its geopolitical and geographical location but also due to the circumstances and its neighbours, not to have a competent Defence Industry to support those Armed Forces and possibly, to be in a position to attract also business from other countries as well. It is perfectly possible. Our strategic goal is to ensure that it will have such co-manufacturings. However, this is not something that has an immediate return. The effort to have combat effective Armed Forces is made on a day-to-day basis. There are long-term and short-term plans, because our neighbours are who they are and as you can see for yourself, they make moves; they are not waiting.
JOURNALIST: In thanking you, allow me to ask whether there will be any diplomatic initiative for the annulment of this agreement between Turkey and Libya that is on the substance null and void.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: As you realize, the initiative is taken by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has the task of informing or, if you like, of reviewing first the text of this agreement in terms of the law, so that Greece would possibly raise its objections as well. Yesterday, together with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Dendias, we were on the side of the Prime Minister, but he had already informed many of his counterparts in the European Union and had already been to Egypt to discuss issues pertaining to Greece and Egypt and within this framework of demarcation of marine areas. And this is also important. In all these cases, Greece should demonstrate the required mobilisation through diplomatic channels, through political channels of communication between leaders, so that the problem would be communicated and Greece would assert its rights.
I believe the foregoing was done in full during the past two or three days. The NATO Convention was an opportunity for all to discuss with lots of people and explain the situation. The same applies to all of course. Apart from that, though, I think that this agreement between Turkey and Libya has a long way to go and basically, it is rather unlikely to lead to something tangible, because it lacks legal foundation.
However, it consists of a move on the geopolitical chessboard in the region, which should be considered as a serious one. In other words, we should not say right now “ok! Everything is alright. The agreement will be annulled; let’s move on”. We should construe this move as a serious indication of Turkey’s mobilization in the entire Eastern Mediterranean Sea and we should take our measures.
JOURNALIST: Minister, thank you very much for the honour. All the best.
N. PANAGIOTOPOULOS: Thank you.
