Mr Minister, what is your opinion on the report of the International Monetary Fund on the first MoU, in respect to both its content and the time frame of its publication?
It is a vindication for those of us, who reacted from the very first moment to the first MoU; and it is now clear that the entry of the country in the support mechanism was a political action by Giorgos Papandreou, which should be examined in depth in order to press political and penal charges. There is no doubt that the entry in the support mechanism and the involvement of the International Monetary Fund, as well the games played during that period for the economy and the markets, need to be examined. The imposition of a policy recognised after years as not only incorrect, but also as catastrophic for the country, gives us indeed at this moment the possibility to ask for rehabilitation of the country for the imposition of policies that were harmful to both the Hellenic people and the national economy.
How can you do that?
I do consider the attitude of the USA, of personally the President Obama, and of the Department of the Treasury during the negotiations in July last year, when the United States and France substantially intervened in view of a proposition, set by the Minister of Finance of Germany, Mr Schäuble, for the exit of the country from the European Union and its transformation into a “locker for people”, thinking that in that way he could solve the refugee problem, and the actual intervention of President Obama in respect to the cancellation of debt, gives the opportunity to solve the debt issue within the following months and before the inauguration of the new President of the United States, to be voted in the elections at hand. Actually the European powers have changed attitude in respect to July last year, and I am certain that Greece will emerge out of this tragic period for its citizens and the country.
My next question is on the Minister of Finance of Germany, who made an intervention in respect to the fines decided to be imposed on Portugal and Spain for financial deficits. This intervention provoked reactions.
It is evidently clear that the part of those decisions, taken since 2015, had nothing to do with decisions taken at Ministers of Finance level, but with decisions taken with political criteria. It was a given that up to last July, the attitude of many in the European Union, led by the Minister of Finance of Germany, towards the government elected by the Greek people was hostile and vindictive. Fortunately, those opinions did not prevail and we have seen that there is a big change in Germany itself and a differentiation of even the Chancellor Merkel vis-à-vis her own Minister of Finance. The opinions of more moderates were those that prevailed, and of those not wishing to use the financial policy as a lever for the political balance in Europe. That pressure exercised on Greece had the inverse impact from the one they sought. Rather than isolating the Left, they managed to inflate the extreme Right.
A question that could be put as legend under a title: Turkey. What is the image from what is happening there and what do the developments in the Turkish Army signal as regards Greece under its status as a NATO-member country and Cyprus?
The late developments in Turkey are of special interest to us, because on one side we have had an attempt to overthrow a government elected by the people and, on the other side, we are now watching constitutional provisions being suspended, international agreements and European Treaties being violated and that there is a pogrom with suspension of freedoms.
Greece is a part of the “neighbourhood” and essentially the decisions will have to be taken by NATO and the European Union. It is not pleasant to watch these developments in the neighbouring country; but from a geo-political point of view, our country and the stability prevailing in Greece are strengthened.
Greece is thence the pillar of stability in the broader area of the Mediterranean, and an axis of stability is established centred on Greece, with Bulgaria and Romania to the North, Cyprus, Egypt and Middle East countries to the South, with which we have excellent relations; we have in parallel the ability to discuss and keep excellent relations with both Israel and the Arab countries. This provides Greece the capability, given the geo-political position that it assumes from now on as a stability flank in the Mediterranean, to take initiatives in order to solve the refugee problem, with the repatriation of the refugees to the countries of their origin.
I consider that the position of Greece is from now on very important and recognised by our allies in NATO, but also by countries outside NATO, such as the Russian Federation, Israel, Middle East countries. In the coming months, initiatives will be taken in order to launch the resolution of the refugee problem, with the return of refugees to safe areas in Syria, to be organised under the supervision of the United Nations.
As regards the Cyprus issue, I consider that the withdrawal of the occupation forces will be essentially the key of the solution.
On our side, despite the difficult financial situation, we keep our Armed Forces with a high morale and operational readiness, in order to counter any threat and secure peace.
Now, let’s continue this, since our country is a member of NATO and you have returned from an official visit to Bulgaria. NATO in its last summit in Warsaw took a series of important decisions for its eastern borders, of particular gravity. What is the position of our country on all these moves?
NATO is actually focusing on two directions. One of the directions has to do with the countries in the North, with sensitivity as regards Russia; but the true enemy is in the South, and the opponents are the spreading of the Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. The situation in Northern Africa and the Middle East, as well as the terrorist attacks conducted in these days against European countries, show us that strengthening of the Alliance must be conducted focusing on the southern sector, in order to face the issue of terrorism and facilitate the normalisation in countries such as Libya, to have democratically elected governments and be able to stop the illegal financing of both terrorism and the ISIS, performed through petroleum, weapons, drugs and human trafficking in the broader area of the South-eastern Mediterranean.
Another development is the transfer of the energy centre from South to the North. The energy reserves in Israel and Cyprus, the exploitation of energy reserves in the Hellenic territories will provide the ability to further strengthen the country both geo-politically and financially, in conjunction with the establishment of an energy hub in northern Greece for the transport of natural gas.
The presence of NATO in the Aegean Sea with operation SNMG2 has proved as successful and we have had a substantial interruption of the refugee and migrant flow from Turkey and through Greece towards Europe. This success has fully vindicated the decision of the government, and of the Ministry of National Defence, to sign this agreement.
We have seen that Erdoğan is withdrawing the Turkish officials from the islands and he said that he does not intend to replace them. How does this influence the implementation of the agreement?
The presence of representatives on the islands has nothing to do with the agreement with NATO, but with the EU-Turkey agreement. It is true that these last days and hours, we have seen many developments in Turkey. The retirement of 1/3 of the manpower of the Turkish Air Force weakens it very much. The purging of general, senior and junior officers changes the geo-political data of the region. I consider that the withdrawal of the representatives on the islands, who substantially facilitated the return of refugees are among those changes by the Erdoğan government at different levels, such as academics, judicial, financial, military officers, etc.
Actually, we have no refugee flow to the eastern Aegean Sea islands; Greece has asked for expansion of the NATO operation in the areas 3, 4 and 5 and has provided a diplomatic permission. I do believe that this constitutes an opportunity for Turkey to cede its territorial waters for the expansion of this operation.
Mr Minister, what is the meaning of the revision of the Constitution for the life of the citizens, as the people live under harsh conditions, without underestimating such a motion?
Revision of the Constitution, in the first place, should constitute a new policy agreement with the citizens. The incredibility of the political system should not go on, as provisions of the Constitution that substantially provide a particular immunity to political personnel, such as the law on the liability of the ministers. No parliamentary immunity should any longer apply to offenses not having to do with the political activities of any political personnel.
I do believe that it is the proper time to give the people the possibility to elect the President of the Republic, either by direct vote or after two failed votes in the Hellenic Parliament; in parallel with the restitution of the article 86 on the powers of the President of the Republic, who will be able to serve as the mediator for the government of the country, without being directly involved in internal politics.
It is also the proper time to initiate provisions that will strengthen direct democracy; that is to give the citizens the power to annul any law voted by the Parliament. These revisions to the Constitution are to restore the confidence of the citizens to the political personnel, to correct crimes committed in the name of democracy with the ministers’ immunity provision -to be done with voting the liability of ministers law- that will restore, further to confidence, more democratic provisions for governing the country.
Reducing the number of deputies, reducing the electoral percentage for the election of deputies to the Parliament will help unite the political personnel. It is not possible in the year 2015 to have five political families that hold the sceptres of the political heritage from fathers to sons and daughters. Such things do not happen anywhere else in the world. It is the proper time for our country to give the opportunity to young people to enter politics and give an end to the law of nepotism in the country that has given birth to democracy.
Such institutional interventions are a very serious matter; however again, how do these influence the people that live under harsh conditions? And eventually, the Prime Minister has announced seven axes of action for the social state. There is the EKAS (Social Solidarity Benefit for Pensioners) and at the same time, what is going on with the specific payrolls? What about the pay-roll of the Armed Forces personnel?
First of all, the pressure imposed on the Greek people has reached its limits as far as wages and pensions reductions are concerned, as well as heavy taxation which was imposed upon us and keeps growth away. Despite all this, we see that the geopolitical strength of the country, along with the stability, result in investments and help the rekindling of the market, but most importantly the reduction of unemployment. I believe that this will help lift the burden off the shoulders of the citizens.
As far as the Armed Forces are concerned, we have to deal with the Specific Payrolls. The military personnel of the Hellenic Armed Forces receive the lowest wages within NATO. The reductions imposed upon them, both serving and retired, reach 65%. There is no room for further reductions. For this reason,n I personally commit myself, and so does the Prime Minister, that irrespective of the creditors’ demands, there are not going to be any further reductions in the wages and the pensions of the personnel.
We can save money -and we have been doing so- in the Armed Forces, for example from taking advantage of non-operational materiel. The Hellenic Armed Forces depots have vast reserves of caliber ammunitions, no longer in use. We should no longer accommodate them, we should sell them. The 34 billion of the Armed Forces property should deliver to the cadres, thus this money should facilitate the income of officers and NCOs and the rest of the personnel of the Armed Forces.
The reorganisation of procurements, the prompt integration of camps will help save resources, something which we communicated to the Ministry of Finance, and this will help secure the required threshold. However, there is no further room for the slightest reductions for anyone. If you think that the Chief of the Hellenic Navy receives a pension, which is lower than a retired civilian’s pension from the Ministry of Finance, bearing no rank, you will realise that the limits have been exhausted, and any further reduction would affect the morale of the Armed Forces, something I am not going to allow.
In your recent post on the internet, as regards to Mrs Fofi Gennimata, there was quite a reaction. After this reaction, do you believe you could have managed the whole issue differently?
My post did not intend to insult Mrs Gennimata, God forbid, especially when it has to do with a health matter, as they said. This post regards a politician and a person who, fairly enough, receives an early retirement pension, being a mother. We should bear in mind that amputees who receive a disabled person’s pension, are called once a year to re-certify their amputation, via a competent Committee.
When we political personnel talk about the collapse of the insurance system because of the early retirement pensions administered, and we reduce the money paid to multi-child families, what we actually do is cut back on people who are in need of the presence of a welfare state, so, a politician who retired at the age of 40, which pension is active -Mrs Gennimata no longer receives this pension because she receives an MPs allowance- however she still maintains the right to that pension.
Without having any intentions to offend her, or God forbid, raise health or maternity issues, it was a mere mention regarding the statement of the president of New Democracy Party, Konstantinos Mitsotakis, on his resistance during the junta period, when he was exiled in Paris, but resided in the 16th arrondissement on Mirambeau street, the most expensive neighbourhood of Paris. So, it does not hold water to say that a then six-month old Kyriakos Mitsotakis, resisted as well, that said without meaning to undermine the importance of the resistance of his father.
Those campaigning against me, because I supposedly raised the issue of Mrs Gennimata’s illness, which never happened, are the same people who attacked via the press my cancer-fighting father, who finally passed on.
And one final question. In a recent Conference of the Independent Hellenes Party, you stressed the importance of reorganising the Party. What is the road-map you have in mind until your Convention in autumn?
Independent Hellenes have been vindicated over the years in their beliefs. Even the recent decision reached by the IMF vindicates us for our founding proclamation. The fact that our Party is the only one which was established and is still present after five consecutive elections, compared to other newly-founded parties, especially by New Democracy politicians, which collapsed and were dismembered within a few months, demonstrates the fact that Independent Hellenes is a civilians’ movement which through its participation in the government and the governmental alliance, and by demonstrating what we believe the “red lines” are, should better evolve to a movement able to open its doors, if it wants to play a very important role in the future.
Independent Hellenes is not the party of Panos Kammenos. It is a citizens’ movement, initially headed by Panos Kammenos. We hope that in that convention we will create the requirements needed to render Independent Hellenes the Central political force, with centre-right cadres, as well as cadres from the patriotic centre-left side, which, ridden of the regime-change mentalities, having achieved national reconciliation will be able to continue safeguarding the principles and values included in our Founding Proclamation with the support of the Greek people.
